OT2023 Quarter Finals

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6 months 1 week ago #24640 by Mark-McG
OT2023 Quarter Finals
 



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OT2023 Quarter Finals

"I will either find a way, or make one."
attrib to Hannibal Barca

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5 months 4 weeks ago #25566 by Viridovilas
Replied by Viridovilas on topic OT2023 Quarter Finals
Just to be sure. There have always been an issue regarding the Light Barbarian chariot rules.

In the Main Rules (3rd ed) is in fact written:

"Light barbarian chariot units may either stay in position or
move one, two or three hexes and Close Combat an adjacent
enemy unit with 2 battle dice. A barbarian chariot unit at full
strength Close Combats with 1 additional battle die and may
ignore one flag rolled against it. A barbarian chariot unit loses
these bonuses after its first block is lost".

On the other hand, all the unit charts published till now just avoid to mention any possibility to ignore the flag.I suppose we will go with the latter version of the rule, but I'd prefer to share a few opinions here with you

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5 months 4 weeks ago #25571 by Mark-McG
Replied by Mark-McG on topic OT2023 Quarter Finals
I'll check the physical charts later, but the VASSAL Chart indicates ignore 1 flag at Full Strength, and the C&C.net webiste also has this.
So I believe LBCH ignore 1 flag at Full Strength

"I will either find a way, or make one."
attrib to Hannibal Barca

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5 months 3 weeks ago #26003 by RiverWanderer
Replied by RiverWanderer on topic OT2023 Quarter Finals

I'll check the physical charts later, but the VASSAL Chart indicates ignore 1 flag at Full Strength, and the C&C.net webiste also has this.
So I believe LBCH ignore 1 flag at Full Strength

I updated this rule for LBCH on Vassal charts earlier this year to bring them into line with the main rulebook (which I assume is where website info came from). In 4th edition main rules, I found the rule mentioned in the combat section, paired with the same about Warriors.

The rule is not mentioned in the detailed description of LBCH (Exp 2 rules, 2014 printing), which might explain why it didn't make it to the player aid either.

It seems to me that these guys are warriors on wheels, so it makes sense that they have the full strength rule.  Another indication that we should go by the main rule-book is scenario 410 ( Mons Graupius ) - that scenario is set up such that two LBCH are unsupported and in range of bow units, one with an obstructed retreat path. This seems reasonable only if the LBCH is initially able to ignore a flag.

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5 months 3 weeks ago #26055 by Viridovilas
Replied by Viridovilas on topic OT2023 Quarter Finals
Actually, a topic started on this forum four years ago regarding this particular rule ( www.commandsandcolors.net/ancients/forum...pic&catid=11&id=1537 ). Actually, opinions were discording. I also fairly remember that someone on Bgg has directly asked to Richard Borg but for once never got an official answer.

All hard copy charts I have don't include any reference to flag ignorable by Barbarian Chariots (and I own every expansion, even if I can't remember which editions are them... I assume the first for each of them, but I' not sure).

Still, I'm obviously open to any resolution. In case, I agree with your reasoning RiverWanderer, even if in my previous games played live with a few of my friends and including Barbarian chariots I have honestly adopted the opposite resolution (BCH couldn't ignore flags) 
 

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5 months 3 weeks ago #26189 by Mark-McG
Replied by Mark-McG on topic OT2023 Quarter Finals
this didn't really answer the question, but let's assume it did. 3rd d rules are the latest.
talk.consimworld.com/WebX?14@@.1dcfbb8c/9296

The update, was just a clarification on how this unit plays.

an update that really didn't clarify at all.

"I will either find a way, or make one."
attrib to Hannibal Barca

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5 months 2 weeks ago #26642 by Mark-McG
Replied by Mark-McG on topic OT2023 Quarter Finals
to clarify the Special Rule

Special Rules
When a Roman unit occupies a Gallic camp hex, it is removed at the Start of the Roman player’s turn. When all three camp hexes are removed, the Roman player gains one Victory Banner.


this means the Roman must start the Roman turn in the Camp hex, not just have passed through at some point

"I will either find a way, or make one."
attrib to Hannibal Barca

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5 months 2 weeks ago #27170 by stephent
Replied by stephent on topic OT2023 Quarter Finals
QF Clusium

Game 1
Steve T Gauls 3 banners
Taliapharaoh Romans 6 banners
The Gaulish cavalry disobeyed orders and attached the Roman left flank lights, doing some damage but the Roman cavalry replied, destroying one Gaulish cavalry and nearly destroying another (0-1). The Romans advanced towards the camps and hills. My Gaul warriors charged forwards, but Aneroestes fell to a double dice leader check and the warriors were defeated by the Roman MI in the ensuing melee for the camp (2-4). With the Gaulish centre broken, the Gaulish lights attempted to harass the advancing Roman centre and screen their weakened units at their centre right, but eventually the Romans broke through to win (3-6).

Game 2
Taliapharaoh Gauls 0 banners
Steve T Romans 6 banners
This game everything went right for me, mainly because apart from some green cards, Travis had nearly entirely left flank cards. He initially advanced on both flanks, including to the hills. The Romans played coordinated advance to prepare a line command and then inspired centre leadership, occupying part of the camp (destroying one Gaulish MC) and the facing slope of the hills (and 2 Gaulish auxila who were on the summit) (0-3). Travis played his only centre card for the game, positioning warriors, escaping with MC, and occupying the last camp hex with LI – but the Roman centre double timed forward to cut off their retreat and assailed that camp. The Gaulish garrison fought valiantly but fell to the third attack, and another Gaulish auxila on the flank was destroyed (0-5). A Gaulish Inspired left leadership enable Concolitanus to lead a desperate warrior attack on the camp, but without success and in the melee a Gaulish MC fell (0-6)

Thanks to Travis for two tough games, and for playing well without the cards needed in the second game.

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5 months 2 weeks ago #27171 by stephent
Replied by stephent on topic OT2023 Quarter Finals
Log files attached
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5 months 2 weeks ago #27172 by stephent
Replied by stephent on topic OT2023 Quarter Finals
Second attempt to attach logs....

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File Name: QFG2_Clusi...-10.vlog
File Size:777 KB
 

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File Name: QFG2_Clusi...-10.vlog
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