Personal Challenge

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9 years 5 months ago #82 by Cavie
Personal Challenge was created by Cavie
Only into my 4th game here but a question came up about Personal Challenge.

If I am the attacker and I play PC can my opponent also play PC? If so, how do you handle this?

My guess is that you resolve the first played PC and then proceed to the 2nd if both leaders are still on the field?

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9 years 5 months ago #83 by Mark-McG
Replied by Mark-McG on topic Personal Challenge
The rules state;
"A player may only play a maximum of one Dragon card during your turn. A player may only play a maximum of one Dragon card during your opponent's game turn. As a result, during the course of any single game turn, there can only be a maximum of two Dragon cards coming into play, one from each player.

In case of contradiction between the effects of two Dragon cards played in succession, the second card trumps the effect of the first one."

So the question is whether there is a contradiction between the effects of the two cards. It could be argued that since the Personal Challenge card player gets a +2 dice modifier, that the defender challenge would go first.

OTOH, if either leader is killed, the 2nd Personal challenge is incapable because it does not meet the minimum requirements. So really for the rules to have meaning, both cards have to be operating together, and the second card trumps the effects of the first card.

So it seems to me that there are a number of possible outcomes, and I'm not sure which would apply;
1. The first played card takes effect, and the 2nd card is taken as not (yet) played.
2. The first played card takes effect, but the modifiers are calculated as per the 2nd played card (modifiers trump)
3. Both cards are taken as played for the same personal challenge combat (both players get the card play modifier)
4. The 2nd played card trumps the first played card entirely, effectively discarding the 1st card. This seems questionable.

I prefer the Option 1. above, but can see the need for a designer response.

“I dreamt of worldly success once.”
― Miyamoto Musashi

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9 years 5 months ago - 9 years 5 months ago #84 by oninohugo
Replied by oninohugo on topic Personal Challenge
Seems like options 2 and 4 are actually the same and would be validated by a "contradiction" but if there is none, options 1 and 3 remain. Since option 1 leads to delaying another automatic reaction (a reaction that could be an overruling of the first card played and thus a swing of bonus if otherwise interpreted) while creating a contradiction by itself (if one leader dies before the second challenge kicks, what do you do with the other personal challenge? Is it wasted?), option 3 (the middle ground that doesn't rise new questions) is really tempting.

Another way to think about it is that the second challenge can't be played at all since it doesn't interrupt CC but the first challenge itself (which actually already interrupted CC). Personal Challenge says "Play before a close combat" and not "Play before a close combat or before a challenge (solution 2 and 4) or during a challenge (solution 3)". So I'd go with solution 0 - Playing a Personal Challenge in response to another is not valid because the prerequisite is not met. The next dice rolling will resolve the challenge not the close combat.

P.S.: Lots of L5R in my days when these timing questions would come up all the time.
Last edit: 9 years 5 months ago by oninohugo.

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9 years 5 months ago - 9 years 4 months ago #85 by Cavie
Replied by Cavie on topic Personal Challenge
Thanks for the responses gentlemen. I tend to think that the 2nd card can't be played but my brain is very hazy right now as I have been sick the last few days. I will read these again once I'm feeling better and maybe we'll here a few other thoughts in the meantime.... :sick:

Edit: After reading again I agree with the fact that the card says "play before a close combat" which would nullify the play of the 2nd PC. That makes most sense to me and is how I'll play it unless we hear differently. Thanks again for the responses B)
Last edit: 9 years 4 months ago by Cavie.

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