319 Wagram - Macdonald’s Square (6 July 1809)

  • alecrespi
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6 years 10 months ago #1269 by alecrespi

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6 years 8 months ago - 6 years 8 months ago #1288 by Mark-McG
Many questions about MacDonald's formation when things happen as follows;

1. If MacDonald is killed?
2. Can the formation stretch into a line?
3. Ordered by Forced March, can only the units in one section battle?
4. Can units out of section be considered ordered for battle purposes?
5. If MacDonald's unit forms a square, does the whole formation fall apart?
6. Leadership cards, orders all formation?

Glory is fleeting, but obscurity is forever.
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Last edit: 6 years 8 months ago by Mark-McG. Reason: condensing questions

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6 years 8 months ago - 6 years 8 months ago #1289 by Mark-McG
So my understanding of the way the rule is intended to work is that units are ordered normally, and if one or more of the units are part of MacDonald's formation, then the whole formation can move (only). When moving each LN unit was remain adjacent to 1 other unit in the formation such that a continuous line of LN units can be traced to MacDonald.

So a line could be formed by this movement, the formation is flexible. However, no unit can voluntarily detach.

Glory is fleeting, but obscurity is forever.
[img]
Last edit: 6 years 8 months ago by Mark-McG. Reason: rationalisation

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  • alecrespi
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6 years 8 months ago #1290 by alecrespi
Replied by alecrespi on topic 319 Wagram - Macdonald’s Square (6 July 1809)
Hi Mark,
just received from Mr Borg an official answer to your questions... here they are.

1. If MacDonald is killed?
(RB) Note, the formation is only maintained while infantry units are in an adjacent contiguous hexes to the MacDonald block.
If MacDonald is eliminated the formation is no longer maintained.
Also note, an infantry unit that forms square or is forced to retreat and is no longer part of the formation, may rejoin the formation when the unit comes out of square or moves and it is again in an adjacent contiguous hex to the MacDonald block

2. Can the formation stretch into a line?
(RB) Yes, the formation could be stretched into a line.

3. Ordered by Forced March, can only the units in one section battle?
(RB) Yes, only units in one section may battle.

4. Can units out of section be considered ordered for battle purposes?
(RB) No, only ordered units on the Command card section may battle.
For a Coordinated Advance and Recon in Force Command card played, units each section of MacDonald’s formation could battle.

5. If MacDonald’s unit forms a square, does the whole formation fall apart?
(RB) This is an interesting question, and probably somewhat of a “so what would happen if” type question.
Although the infantry unit with MacDonald attached is technically not in the formation, infantry units still in an adjacent contiguous hexes to the MacDonald block are still part of the formation.

6. Leadership cards, orders all formation?
(RB) When MacDonald is ordered by a Leadership Command card, the infantry unit he is attached to and infantry units in an adjacent contiguous hexes to the MacDonald block are ordered. Only the infantry unit with MacDonald attached may battle.

7. May MacDonald be ordered to break away from the formation?
(RB) No, like an infantry unit in the formation, the MacDonald block may not be ordered to break away from the formation.


I hope everything would be clearer then.
Regards
Alessandro

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6 years 5 months ago #1449 by Michalxo
What about for example elan card?
Imagine I roll XSW, CAV, INF, ART, XSW, INF. That means that I could order 1 INF unit in McD, another 1 unit somewhere else on map and ART + CAV. That's clear. Now that solo INF moves, and whole McD moves, thank's to that single INF, and CAV + ART.

Now I have question, does it mean, that 4 any units from McD may battle? + 1 solo INF unit somewhere else on map, CAV and ART. Do I understand it correctly?

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6 years 5 months ago - 6 years 5 months ago #1452 by Bayernkini
If you give only 1 order of the Elan result (INF in this case) to the MacDonalds formation, then the complete formation is ordered and may move, BUT only the inital number of orders which you apply to the formation, may battle, in your example only 1 INF.

It´s similar as the number 6 of the FAQ answers (see post above from Alessandro) says about a Leadership cards.

My dice are the hell!
Last edit: 6 years 5 months ago by Bayernkini.
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6 years 5 months ago - 6 years 5 months ago #1480 by Bayernkini
3. Ordered by Forced March, can only the units in one section battle?
(RB) Yes, only units in one section may battle.

4. Can units out of section be considered ordered for battle purposes?
(RB) No, only ordered units on the Command card section may battle.
For a Coordinated Advance and Recon in Force Command card played, units each section of MacDonald’s formation could battle.


To make this rule/FAQ more clear (because of a similar situation in a tournament game), i got still another additional answer from Richard :)

File Attachment:


File Attachment:


MacDonalds formation was ordered by a Attack Center, so complete formation was ordered and can move with the initial center card. That´s no problem :)
The question was,

Q: Can the left French unit with Leader (Broussier), which startet on left section, move into Center section and battle. Or can only the Units battle, which started on Center, because of the Initial Center card?

A: In regard to battling, any ordered unit may battle. The section a unit starts in or ends in or remains in does not restrict what units may battle.
Richard Borg


This makes it more clear now. General a nice rule, but in game it makes sometimes worries, with which cards, which units can ordered and how many may battle in which sections :dry:

My dice are the hell!
Last edit: 6 years 5 months ago by Bayernkini.

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6 years 5 months ago - 6 years 5 months ago #1481 by Michalxo
I got lost now.
It was all clear, and now after reading

A: In regard to battling, any ordered unit may battle. The section a unit starts in or ends in or remains in does not restrict what units may battle.


What? So any unit from McD can battle? Ignoring sections??
So can Broussier attack or no?
Last edit: 6 years 5 months ago by Michalxo.

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6 years 5 months ago #1482 by Bayernkini
No, only the number of units, which the command cards shows, can battle.
So far, all battles, which i saw, are been correct :)

But you are right, this rule is unlucky :S

My dice are the hell!

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6 years 5 months ago #1483 by Mark-McG
My view is that it is better to consider that the cards only order units as normal.

If a MacDonald's square INF is ordered, all the other units may move. They are not ordered for any other purpose.

The units that were ordered may battle normally.

So was Boussier able to be ordered? No. Because it was not a Centre unit.
Ergo, Boussier cannot battle.

If Lamarche was ordered, he could battle, but even being in the centre, if not ordered.. then no battle.

Glory is fleeting, but obscurity is forever.
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