Lancers versus Leader Orders a Fall Back card

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4 months 5 days ago #5917 by gunner34
Lancers attack another cavalry unit with attached leader and defending player uses the Leader Orders a Fall Back tactician card-
Do the lancers get to reroll the flags or does the card effect of "only unit symbols will cause a hit" override it?

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4 months 5 days ago - 3 months 2 weeks ago #5918 by Bayernkini

Do the lancers get to reroll the flags or does the card effect of "only unit symbols will cause a hit" override it?


In a normal close combat, a crossword hits an unit (except the units, which never hits with cross-sabers).
And this card simple override exact those basic rule only. Not more, no less

But i will crosscheck it with Richard for sure and add it to the FAQ.



Q: Because only unit symbols hits an unit and the flags are ignored for retreats, are the flags also ignored for the "Lancer reroll"?

A: Because only unit symbols rolled will score a hit, all other symbols, flags and sabers that would normally take effect are ignored because of the Combat card played.
Therefore no lancer reroll here.

Richard Borg; 2019-08-29

My dice are the hell!
Last edit: 3 months 2 weeks ago by Bayernkini.

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4 months 5 days ago #5919 by Mark-McG
I am uncertain on the answer here, but a relevant comparison is Elephants in Ancients, since Elephants re-roll Swords.

The FAQ states " Only symbols that match the evading unit will score a hit when a unit is evading, flags, swords and leader symbols and other unit type symbols will all miss. In addition, If a unit evades an attack from an elephant, since sword rolls "miss," the elephant does not re-roll sword rolls."

Taken from Ancients - Commands and Colors System website.
www.commandsandcolors.net/ancients/
Page title: Evasion (Unit and Leader evade) - Ancients - Commands and Colors System
Page link: www.commandsandcolors.net/ancients/the-g...nd-leader-evade.html

so I'm leaning towards Lancers NOT re-rolling flags.

In a way it would be cleaner if they did, since it doesn't create a rules exception, just both rules were applied.

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4 months 4 days ago - 4 months 4 days ago #5920 by gunner34
I went back and reread the lancer entry in Exp1
"Note the number of initial flags rolled in the initial melee and add this number to the number of flags rolled on the re-roll. Total number of flags rolled, plus all unit hits and sabers rolled are then applied to the defending unit."
So it would seem to me that you roll the dice, rerolling flags as neccesary, add it all up then apply the results to the target minus flags and swords as per the Tactician Card.

The issue came up before re; another Tactician card www.commandsandcolors.net/napoleonics/fo...-leader-tc.html#5674

The comments seemed to favor the reroll. I believe I saw something about it on another forum also, but now I can't seem to find it.
[edit] found it: boardgamegeek.com/thread/1972057/light-lancers-against-squares
It isn't exactly the same thing but I think it is relevant.
Last edit: 4 months 4 days ago by gunner34. Reason: Forgot to add another point.

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4 months 4 days ago #5921 by proyce
I would say to reroll flags. The card doesn't say anything about negating flag rolls, only negates saber rolls. Therefore flag rerolls would only hit on unit symbols, not sabers.

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3 months 2 weeks ago #5957 by Bayernkini
Final i got the response of Richard.

Q: Because only unit symbols hits an unit and the flags are ignored for retreats, are the flags also ignored for the "Lancer reroll"?

A: Because only unit symbols rolled will score a hit, all other symbols, flags and sabers that would normally take effect are ignored.
Therefore no lancer reroll here.


Richard Borg; 2019-08-29


I am surprised and played it contrary so far.

My dice are the hell!
The following user(s) said Thank You: Hawkmoon, RiverWanderer

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3 months 1 week ago #5971 by Superman
Our final answer is that lancers do get to re-roll flags, and then you ignore further flags and swords. Since lancer units are so rare in this game, it is nice for them to keep their special ability in this case.

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3 months 6 days ago #5983 by RiverWanderer
“Our final answer is that lancers do get to re-roll flags, and then you ignore further flags and swords. Since lancer units are so rare in this game, it is nice for them to keep their special ability in this case.”

Much as I prefer this answer, it is not what the FAQ now says, does this statement come from Richard Borg?

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3 months 6 days ago #5986 by Bayernkini
Maybe "Superman" meant his answer as his own way to play it as house rule.

The answer from Richard was clear, NO Lancer reroll with flags.
Simple imagine the flags are also misses as other symbols.

My dice are the hell!
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3 months 6 days ago #5988 by Bangla
Makes it consistent with Ancients/Elephants at least. I think we've been playing it differently though, so will have to change for the future.

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