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Questions about Garrison, Short Supply and Capable Tactician

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3 years 9 months ago - 3 years 9 months ago #3121 by Hawkmoon-von-Köln
Hi Comrades,

At last, CCN Expansion#5 has arrived in Le Mans (with a sympathic tax majoration from the french customs !!!).

We began to play the new rules with my friend Leboucher at Orthez.
We have some questions :
1 - When playing Short Supply on an INF unit in a town hex, can this unit leave back a Garrison ? (I didn't let my opponent do it because it's written on the card that the INF unit had to be ordered to leave a Garrison marker ; was I right or not ?)
2 - When a player discards a "Capable Tactician" card and chooses one in yet discarded ones, does he have to show it to his (or her) opponent or not ?

Thank you for your answers

Greetings from Le Mans, homeland of the 24 hours motor race and the "Rillettes" (minced meat and fat of pork).

PS : Another questions soon...

We ride the tricycles
of true metal of steel
While others bands play,
we eat happy meal
In the forest of minerals,
The posers we kill !
Nanowar of Steel (Blood of the Queens)
Last edit: 3 years 9 months ago by Hawkmoon-von-Köln.

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3 years 9 months ago #3123 by Mark-McG
in regards to Q1, the garrison rule states

An Infantry unit with two or more blocks that occupies any building, walled garden or walled farm hex at the start of the turn, and is ordered to move out of that hex, may leave a Garrison in the hex.


Since the Short supply happens before ordering units, no garrison can be left because the unit is not ordered.
So the sequence of play resolves the question.

in regards to Q2, it isn't stated in the rules, but in practice the cards are face up, so the selection would be known.

Glory is fleeting, but obscurity is forever.
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The following user(s) said Thank You: Hawkmoon-von-Köln, Grondeaux

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3 years 9 months ago #3124 by Hawkmoon-von-Köln
So we played it correctly.

Thank you Mark !

We ride the tricycles
of true metal of steel
While others bands play,
we eat happy meal
In the forest of minerals,
The posers we kill !
Nanowar of Steel (Blood of the Queens)

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3 years 4 months ago - 3 years 4 months ago #3595 by Superman
I have a question about garrisons and didn't want to start another thread on the topic.

Can a unit retreat into a town which is occupied by a friendly garrison?
Last edit: 3 years 4 months ago by Superman.

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3 years 4 months ago - 3 years 3 months ago #3596 by Bayernkini
Yes, and the garrison marker is removed then (also the corresponding VP, if the Garrison Marker represent one)

Richard has spoken opposed, see below!

My dice are the hell!
Last edit: 3 years 3 months ago by Bayernkini.

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3 years 4 months ago #3597 by Superman
Ok, thanks. I just reread the rule concerning garrisons again, and it makes sense since the verbiage on the rule says "enter" into a town hex versus being ordered. So retreats into a friendly garrison are Ok. However, I didn't understand what you wrote in parentheses about losing a victory point. It seems that if the condition of the VP is to have a friendly unit in the town, then it shouldn't matter if the unit was ordered into the town or was forced to retreat into the town.

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3 years 4 months ago - 3 years 4 months ago #3598 by Bayernkini

It seems that if the condition of the VP is to have a friendly unit in the town, then it shouldn't matter if the unit was ordered into the town or was forced to retreat into the town.


It´s dependent of the kind of VP. You loose always immediately the VP, if the the condition is lost,
e.g. if the Garrison Marker is removed.
But if it is a "Turn Start" VP, the "retreating" Unit (or any other normal unit in their movement phase) get the VP again only at next turn start.
This small but important rule is often played wrong. It doesn´t matter in middle of game, but it´s very important, to play this rule very carefull, if it´s close before a victory ;)

So it can be, that it really doesn´t matter, if the VP is a "immediately" VP, but i can imagine, that retreating units can´t fullfill VP conditions, and i will check this case.

My dice are the hell!
Last edit: 3 years 4 months ago by Bayernkini.

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3 years 3 months ago - 3 years 3 months ago #3601 by Bayernkini
Got a first reply from Richard and he has spoken opposed to my first answer!

A friendly unit may normal move on a hex with a Garrison Marker and the marker must be removed.
A friendly unit may not retreat or retire and reform onto a hex with a Garrison Marker. A Garrison Marker occupies a hex and therefore will block a unit’s retreat.
Richard Borg, 2016-05.16



The answer, what happens, if a unit is retreating onto a own (immediately) objective VP hex is still outstanding.
I open a new thread about this here
www.commandsandcolors.net/napoleonics/fo...ting-units.html#3603

My dice are the hell!
Last edit: 3 years 3 months ago by Bayernkini.

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3 years 3 months ago - 3 years 3 months ago #3610 by Superman
Thanks for taking the time to answer my question. With the way the rules are worded, I think your first answer is correct.

A portion of the exact text of the rules governing Garrisons is as follows:

“A Garrison block is treated like an Infantry unit for all game purposes with the following exceptions:
...
-A friendly unit may enter a Garrison hex. When the unit enters, the Garrison marker and Infantry block are removed.”...

Notice the word “enter” is used and not the word “ordered” or “moved”. This implies a friendly unit may enter the Garrison hex by any means which doesn’t contradict any other rules. So a unit may either be ordered and moved into a Garrison hex or retreat into a Garrison hex. If this was not the intention of the author, then the language used in writing the rule should be corrected in the next edition to reflect that only units which are ordered and subsequently moved can enter a Garrison hex. (taking ground is not even applicable since the discussion concerns friendly garrisons)

Would also point out that Garrisons can support friendly units for determining if any flags may be ignored.
Last edit: 3 years 3 months ago by Superman.

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3 years 3 months ago #3613 by Bayernkini

Q: Would also point out that Garrisons can support friendly units for determining if any flags may be ignored.


A: A Garrison Marker can´t provide support other units.
Richard Borg; 2016-05-21

My dice are the hell!

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