Rules Question on Movement and Battle Related to Leader

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2 years 10 months ago - 2 years 10 months ago #5038 by Zamba Bone
Rules Phase 3: "A unit may move onto a hex occupied by a friendly leader when the leader block is alone in a hex. The unit must stop and move no further on that turn. The leader is considered attached to the unit."

1. Can a unit move onto a lone leader and battle? I cannot find anything in the rules that would prohibit this.
2. If so, can an Infantry unit that has moved onto a lone leader and battled take ground, and a Cavalry unit conduct a Cavalry Breakthrough? Technically this is not permitted, since both cases are considered "movement", and the rule quoted above says that the unit may "move no further on that turn".

It feels wrong, though. If a unit can battle it should also be able to take ground / conduct breakthrough.

Thank you for clarifying.

Sechs Fuß hoch aufgeschossen, ein Kriegsgott anzuschaun, der Liebling der Genossen, der Abgott schöner Fraun.
Blauäugig, blond, verwegen, und in der jungen Hand, den alten Preußendegen – Prinz Louis Ferdinand.
Last edit: 2 years 10 months ago by Zamba Bone. Reason: Corrected grammar

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2 years 10 months ago #5039 by proyce
1. I would say yes, it can battle.
2. I would say no, it cannot take ground or do a cavalry breakthrough, because the rules says it can move no further that turn. We have guidance from Richard Borg that says a unit moving into terrain that stops movement (river, town, etc.) cannot take ground. However, I cannot find anything that addresses the specific question you asked here.

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2 years 10 months ago #5040 by Mark-McG
1. Yes
PLAY NOTE: Timing is important when detaching and attaching leaders. Once a moving leader attaches to a new unit, the new unit may not move if ordered, but the unit (and the newly attached leader) may Battle in place.

2. I would say yes, because the Leader is now attached to the unit. But it is not clear.

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2 years 10 months ago - 2 years 10 months ago #5041 by Bayernkini
1) Yes, a unit may battle if he moves onto a lone friendly leader hex (but must stop further movement).
General following the basic rules and all is allowed, which is not explicit forbidden about other rules (terrain, command/tactician cards e.g.)
And basic rule say: An ordered unit may move and/or battle!


Dependent of Richards FAQ and rigorous following the written rules, i would say, "no further movement" includes here a take ground and/or Cavalry breakthrough also,
but i will affirm it and expand the FAQ "Taking Ground".

But much more interested here is, why let you a lone leader adjacent to an enemy unit (thats the requirement of your question).
If you play such tactics, you will not long survive (not only your leader) if you play against experienced players ;)

My dice are the hell!
Last edit: 2 years 10 months ago by Bayernkini.

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2 years 10 months ago #5043 by proyce
Lone leader next to enemy is a bad idea, but the leader could be 2 hexes away and the moving unit could used ranged combat at the reduced die roll. Still a lone leader only 2 hexes from an enemy unit is also a bad idea, but it happens sometimes.

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2 years 10 months ago #5044 by Bayernkini

but the leader could be 2 hexes away and the moving unit could used ranged combat


We are speaking not of range combat, because OP are speaking of "Take Ground and/or Cavalry breakthrough",
and both can only happen in melee, which requires an leader adjacent to an enemy (except he moved the leader also first adjacent to the enemy hex too).

My dice are the hell!

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2 years 10 months ago - 2 years 10 months ago #5045 by Zamba Bone
Come on guys.

Firstly, the rules must be 100% clear, regardless of the likelihood of any given situation. This game has been playtested, has been played thousands of times, it is in its third printing, and still some rules are unclear? That's disappointing. Especially because it is a decidedly "light" ruleset.

Secondly, if you think this situation comes down to bad strategy alone, think again. Maybe an enemy Heavy Cavalry, using a TC card that gives it a movement of 3, unexpectedly charged behind my lines and destroyed a nearby unit and broke through close to my leader whom I put there to use a Leader Command Section card. But I can think of another situation right away: Maybe the unit my leader was attached to has been destroyed and I want to fight back on my next turn, therefore intentionally retreating the leader only one hex so it can be rejoined by another unit and attack immediately.

Sechs Fuß hoch aufgeschossen, ein Kriegsgott anzuschaun, der Liebling der Genossen, der Abgott schöner Fraun.
Blauäugig, blond, verwegen, und in der jungen Hand, den alten Preußendegen – Prinz Louis Ferdinand.
Last edit: 2 years 10 months ago by Zamba Bone.

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2 years 10 months ago #5046 by Bayernkini
As i said, we have to play rigorous following the written rules!

As the rule state - “A unit may move onto occupied by a friendly leader when the leader block is alone in a hex. The unit must stop and move no further on that turn. The leader is considered attached to the unit.”

The unit must stop and move no further on that turn, means no further movement which includes Breatkthrough and Taking Ground.


Richard Borg, 2017-12-14

My dice are the hell!

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2 years 10 months ago #5048 by GG
Yop! Simple! That's the way I always played it! ;)

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2 years 10 months ago #5049 by Superman
A point was made that placing a lone leader next to the enemy is a bad idea. I've always thought so too, but on one occasion my opponent moved one of his leaders 3 hexes to block one of my units from being able to retreat and attacked with another unit. A rare situation, but technically legal by the rules to use one of your leaders in a manner to block enemy movement.

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