OT2019 Round 5

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OT2019 Round 5

 Scenario: GG06 Fleurus (26 June 1794)  [see discussion Post 1 for attached VASSAL game file]
Deadline: 29 February 2020 (taking full advantage of the leap year)

 

 ROUND 5 Banners       Banners    
Player 1 Game 1 Game 2 Points Player 2 Game 1 Game 2 Points
g1ul10  9  4  1 Gileforn  8  9  2
Viridovilas  9  9  3 Mark-McG  4  6  0
Kandras78  9  9  3 mantra  7  7  0
Bangla  2 forfeit  0 Gonzo  9 win 3
RiverWanderer  9 3 1 Nemo2333  6 9 2
toganalper 8

1

0 soul1st 9 9 3
scipio1zama  9 6 2 BrentS  3 9 1
gottoman  9 9 3 rfdoane  3 6 0
FoxK 9 5 1 EZPickins 6 9 2
Rik     1 tyler     1
Simba28 9 1 1 kfan 8 9 2

Cumulative Result Totals

Player Rnd1 Rnd2 Rnd 3 Rnd4 Rnd 5
g1ul10 3 6 8 11 12
Viridovilas 2 5 6.5 8.5 11.5
Gileforn 1.5 4.5 6 9 11
Kandras78 3 4 7 8 11
Gonzo 1.5 4.5 5.5 7.5 10.5
Nemo2333 1 1 4 7 9
soul1st 3 3 5 6 9
RiverWanderer 3 4 6 7.5 8.5
gottoman 1 1 4 5.5 8.5
Mark-McG 2 5 8 8 8
mantra 3 5 5 8 8
Bangla 3 5 6 7.5 7.5
scipio1zama 1 4 4 5.5 6.5
toganalper 0 3 6 6 6
BrentS 2 2 5 5 6
EZPickins 0 3 3 4 6
FoxK 3 3 4 4 5
Rik 0 0 3 4 5
rfdoane 0 1.5 1.5 4.5 4.5
kfan x x x 3 5
tyler 0 1.5 1.5 1.5 2.5
Simba28 2 2 2 2 3

 

Tiebreaker (sum of final score of opponents per round)  
  R1 R2 R3 R4 R5 total
RiverWanderer 6 8 10.5 7.5 9 41
gottoman 8 10.5 3.5 6.5 4.5 33

 

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GG's Avatar
GG replied the topic: #6348 9 months 11 hours ago

Mark-McG wrote: Out of interest, did any of the Round 5 matches use the Balloon Special Rule?

As the French I think I never had the opportunity.

The advantage to the French seems to have been knowing the Austrian movements, and so being able to direct their forces to meet them. It seems more like an operational level advantage than a tactical one. Perhaps giving the French March moves (the 3 star moves) would be more effective?

Anyway, now the Round is complete.. comment away!


Check the new rules I gave to this scenario to a better balance and use of the balloon (see the scenario on this website):

Special Rules changes:

• If all the building hexes are not occupied by French troops, the Allies player gains one Victory Banner (Turn start). The Allies player starts with 1 Victory Banner. (so the Allies can win a MAXIMUM of 1VP even if the French leaves more than 1 town free)

• French balloon watching: At the start of any turn during which a scout card is played (Allied or French): The French player can watch the full opponent hand. (so you can see ALL the cards BEFORE ordering your unit plus you can still DRAW 2 CARDS and choose one)

GG
Mark-McG's Avatar
Mark-McG replied the topic: #6346 9 months 12 hours ago
Out of interest, did any of the Round 5 matches use the Balloon Special Rule?

As the French I think I never had the opportunity.

The advantage to the French seems to have been knowing the Austrian movements, and so being able to direct their forces to meet them. It seems more like an operational level advantage than a tactical one. Perhaps giving the French March moves (the 3 star moves) would be more effective?

Anyway, now the Round is complete.. comment away!
kfan's Avatar
kfan replied the topic: #6343 9 months 1 day ago

Game 2

David (Allies) - 9
Nigel (French) - 1

The Austrians opened the game with two consecutive Attack Center cards and Hippignies falls early to a concerted attack. Soon after, Fleurus is secured on the Allied left flank as the French troops are battered back. The battle continues along the front as the French bring forward reserves. Lefebvre dies a glorious death under withering fire from the outskirts of Hippignies and the situation is grim for the French. The center of the battlefield continues to rage and the Dutch hold the line on the Allied right flank. In a last ditch effort to save the day, the brave Morlot advances from the safety of Gosselies only to have his troops mowed down by deadly Austrian fire.

Fortune shone brightly on the Allied forces this day. Nigel is an awesome opponent who suffered some serious misfortune in this second game. The first game was razor close and was a game for the ages. Thank you!


File Attachment:

File Name: GG06Fleuru...-01.vlog
File Size:74 COM_KUNENA_USER_ATTACHMENT_FILE_WEIGHT

File Attachment:

File Name: GG06Fleuru...vid.vsav
File Size:49 COM_KUNENA_USER_ATTACHMENT_FILE_WEIGHT
EZPickins replied the topic: #6342 9 months 2 days ago
Game 1
FoxK (Allies) 9 banners
EZPickins (French) 6 banners

Game 2
EZPickins (Prussian) 9 banners
FoxK (French) 5 banners
Both games were tense from the start. Action all across the board with most of the damage on the flanks. I think I was able to win the second only due to his lack of good cards. Rolls were pretty even on the whole. Another good set of games with a quality opponent.
GG's Avatar
GG replied the topic: #6341 9 months 3 days ago

BrentS wrote: ...
While the observation balloon was a cute idea, I don't recall it being used in either of our matches. Certainly when I played a Scout as the French, I was much more desperate to broaden my card options than to see the Allied hand.
Brent.


When you finish this round: Try it with the NEW SPECIAL RULES (check the scenario on this website).

GG ;)
BrentS replied the topic: #6339 9 months 3 days ago
Game 2

BrentS (French) 9
scipio1zama (Allies) 6

A very enjoyable match with heavy engagement in all sections. It ended memorably with a Fire and Hold grand battery vaporising a full strength Austrian Heavy Cav.

While the observation balloon was a cute idea, I don't recall it being used in either of our matches. Certainly when I played a Scout as the French, I was much more desperate to broaden my card options than to see the Allied hand.

Thanks Mike for a couple of fun matches and thanks Mark for organising the tournament.

Brent.

File Attachment:

File Name: OTR5BrentS...ma2.vlog
File Size:97 COM_KUNENA_USER_ATTACHMENT_FILE_WEIGHT

File Attachment:

File Name: OTR5BrentS...ma2.vlog
File Size:97 COM_KUNENA_USER_ATTACHMENT_FILE_WEIGHT

File Attachment:

File Name: OTR5BrentS...ma2.vlog
File Size:97 COM_KUNENA_USER_ATTACHMENT_FILE_WEIGHT
Mark-McG's Avatar
Mark-McG replied the topic: #6334 9 months 4 days ago
I've had about a 2 month stretch where I can't seem to roll INF hits, to the extent that I'm hesitant to even target them.
This game was a exemplar of those dice, my first 2 banners were XX leader kills, and of 6 banners, I killed 2 leaders, 1 INF, 1 CAV and 2 ART.
The CAV & one ART I lifted off complete with a charging Heavy CAV, hot dice against anything but INF.

Anyway, after 8 straight losses over 3 months, I seem to have turned the corner on the dice curse. Won an EPIC game in mid February.
Better than the Ancients dry patch where I played 19 games without getting First Strike or Double Time in hand.
Viridovilas's Avatar
Viridovilas replied the topic: #6333 9 months 5 days ago
GG06 Fleurus (26 June 1794) 2nd game

Viridovilas (French) 9
Mark-McG (Allies) 6

It was as usual a tough battle against Mark. At first Allies put a lot of pressure against French left flank, but despite the heroic sacrifices of Generals Montaigu and Morlot (two double sabres hits), the Napo infantry miraculously hold the line against the Dutch attack (apparently unable to roll INFs). Allies then turn their attention toward the opposite side of the field where they fiercely charged the French strong position upon the hill, wiping out their artillery. But again the Gallic infantry proved to be resilient and hold back the attack. The battle was finally decided by a double cavalry charge in the centre, with luck that smiled on the French.

File Attachment:

File Name: OT19Rnd5Vi...nok.vlog
File Size:96 COM_KUNENA_USER_ATTACHMENT_FILE_WEIGHT
Nemo2333 replied the topic: #6332 9 months 5 days ago
Game 2
Nemo2333 (Alies):9
RiverWaderer (french):3
Mark-McG's Avatar
Mark-McG replied the topic: #6330 9 months 6 days ago
Gentlemen,
Coming up to the Round 5 deadline on Saturday. Please get your outstanding matches played!

If you have difficulties, please contact me.
soul1st's Avatar
soul1st replied the topic: #6319 9 months 1 week ago
Game 1
soul1st (Twan) (Allies): 9
Togan Alper (French): 8

In the first part of the game the Allies got some banners by driving the French from the town hexes or the French moving off the town hexes. Later on the French were able to reoccupy most town hexes with a Grand Manoeuvre. Both sides had lost 5 units at that time. The decision came some time after that. The Allies had managed to occupy one town hex. The French attacked a lone leader that had fled after an Austrian LN was decimated. The French attacked the leader with a HC with one block combined with an artillery attack. The French had 8 victory points at this moment. The allies 6. The lone leader survived this attack. The French made a mistake and also retreated from a town hex. In the Allied turn the Allies claimed two victory points because two town hexes were unoccupied by the French. The undermanned HC was eliminated securing the Allied victory at a critical moment.
The Allies were lucky when the attack on the lone leader failed.

Game 2
Togan Alper (Allies): 1
soul1st (Twan) (French): 9

Togan Alper did not have time to play the second game before the deadline and conceded the second game.

File Attachment:

File Name: GG06Fleurus.vlog
File Size:99 COM_KUNENA_USER_ATTACHMENT_FILE_WEIGHT
Simba28's Avatar
Simba28 replied the topic: #6307 9 months 1 week ago
GG06 Fleurus (26 June 1794) [OT2019-Round Five - 1st game]
French 8 (David) vs Allies 9 (Nigel)

French Right Flank
The French forces refused to give up the advantages that the ridge of hills gave them on their Right Flank. Preferring to maintain fire at a distance on the opposing forces and inhabit the town denying a VP to the Allies.
French Left Flank
The French forces on the left flank fought superbly and again maintained a fairly static front repelling all attempts by the Dutch to push them back.
Centre
It was in the centre that all the action was. The Allies threw themselves at the French line which refused to yield. The French took an early lead and it was looking like an early night for David. However eventually the tide started to turn.
Because the French had orders to maintain a presence in each of the towns, some of their best and freshest troops were tied down.
The Allies stayed out of range tempting them to come and get them. Withdrawing their own wounded troops to the rear.
In a definitive war of attrition (last man standing) it came down to 1 Allied Field Artillery in the centre and a small French force in the town of Hippignies firing at close range for the win. All other units were either hunkered down protecting the towns or too damaged to risk. The French had one infantry unit attempting to get to the front, but they arrived too late.
Both sides had chances to win throughout. But the Allies managed to outlast the French for a Pyrrhic victory.
A thoroughly enjoyable game which ebbed and flowed until the end. Thanks David for the game look forward to the return bout.
gottoman's Avatar
gottoman replied the topic: #6306 9 months 1 week ago

GG06 Fleurus (26 June 1794) [OT2019-Round Five - 1st game]
French 6 vs Allies (Greg O) 9

The French got off to a huge start, slamming into the left flank and picking up a quick 5 banners. The Allies refused the flank with an artillery and to full strength LNs and the battle shifted to the center and right flank. The Allies fought back steadily and eventually secured a 9-6 victory.
GG's Avatar
GG replied the topic: #6300 9 months 1 week ago
OK Mark!
Mark-McG's Avatar
Mark-McG replied the topic: #6299 9 months 1 week ago
GG & Mark,

Could you take the discussion of the scenario over to the Scenario discussion, rather than here on the tournament discussion.

www.commandsandcolors.net/napoleonics/ma...us-26-june-1794.html

If I might remind everyone, for the purposes of the tournament, the Special Rule remains that at the end of the turn when the French player plays a Scout card, they can forego the choice of two cards, and inspect the Austrian Command Cards in hand instead.
gottoman's Avatar
gottoman replied the topic: #6296 9 months 1 week ago
GG06 Fleurus (26 June 1794) [OT2019-Round Five - 1st game]
Allies(Rob) 3 vs French(Greg O) 9


Action started on the right with Allies taking first banner, but the French responded and eliminated two units and a leader to take an early lead. Then the battle moved to the center with an infantry clash and then an Allied cav charge. The French held in the center exchanging some banners, and counter punched on the left, culminating with a French Bay. Charge and then a Assault Left Flank that secured the day for the French.
GG's Avatar
GG replied the topic: #6294 9 months 1 week ago
Dear Mark aka "River Wanderer",

First thank you to appreciate the scenario.

About some Balloon changes you propose:
1) First be sure I'm part of the players who respect the rule changes so even if I don't go with your proposal, I respect them a lot and will just say: Play the way you love it best and enjoy it my friend: FREEDOM!
2) I'm also part of the players who, when adding a special rule in their house scenario, want them to be few, simple, short, easy to write and using if possible official mechanisms already existing (even if not the case here lol). To be honest I never play neither read the notes of a house scenario when I see many complicated special rules written. OK I did it once with my Leipzig but even if I adore it, I respect the players who don't even want to give it a try.
3) If to be placed somewhere, the balloon was close to the Headquarters and both were (if my informations are correct) quite central under the town of Grosselie and very close to the front. So I would place it on the free hex between the French Leaders Morlot and Hatry!
4) Even if many illustrations of the time show the battle and the balloon because of the originality of the fact, the French reports don't say it was a major reason of the victory. For this reason, for the simplicity of the rules and for not to break the balance of the scenario, I deliberately preferred my light balloon special rule.
5) For those who regret that without scout card the French may never use the balloon rule, a simple (always stay simple) possible rule could be: "At the start of any turn during which a scout card is played (Allied or French): The French player can watch the full opponent hand".

File Attachment:
Mark-McG's Avatar
Mark-McG replied the topic: #6292 9 months 1 week ago

RiverWanderer wrote: We played the original rules but noticed that one French LN was not marked with a Conscript marker. Since the special rules simply stated that the French Line where inexperienced and didn't get the +1 in melee, we agreed to change this rogue LN to a Conscript like all the others.


That would be my error. I marked the French LN as conscript in the VASSAL file as a reminder, but overlooked one

Updated scenario file.

File Attachment:

File Name: GG06Fleuru...-19.vsav
File Size:35 COM_KUNENA_USER_ATTACHMENT_FILE_WEIGHT
RiverWanderer's Avatar
RiverWanderer replied the topic: #6291 9 months 1 week ago
Thanks for GG for this entertaining scenario. Even without the balloon action, the terrain and the town Victory Banners made for a good, tense game. I have still to play my second of the tournament games but, after a little wikipedia browsing, I have a couple of ideas to get the Balloon to be more of a feature. I hope they can help develop the scenario and would be interested to try them out.

First and foremost - allow the French player a view of the Allies hand at the start of the French player's turn. This represents the pre-battle reconnaissance that the French achieved.

Secondly, how about making the balloon a presence on the battlefield? I think a permanent capability in the control of the French player as long as the balloon remains active would help bring the theme out in more games than relying on sporadic scout card draws. Here is a suggestion that I am thinking of trying out:

a) A French leader block is added to represent L’Enterprenant, Captain Coutelle and the rest of the Aerostatic Corps. This leader block is based on the banks of the Sambre (clear hex on French baseline). The L’Enterprenant leader block should be specially marked. It may not move, except backwards to leave the board (representing the escape of the specialists from the battlefield). If joined by a unit, that unit may be ordered to move when-ever it would normally be the leader that moved.

b) The L’Enterprenant leader block operates in all other respects like a leader block and so it may be lost as a victory banner. OK, Coutelle was a technician rather than a military leader, but the leader benefits represent the "inspiration" to supporting forces to protect this valuable asset.

c) As long as L’Enterprenant remains on the board, the French player may elect to spend one order from an applicable card, to gain *one* of the following benefits:-
i) See the Allied player’s current hand
OR
ii) Choose to draw an *additional* command card - choosing 1 to add to hand and putting the 1 or 2 others back
OR
iii) Draw a Tactician Card

(ii) & (iii) represent the use of the balloon to improve command and control (I read it was used for signalling as well as for reconnaissance).

An "applicable card" is any card that can order a *leader* positioned on the French right flank. If a unit joins L'Enterprenant the two will need separate orders to activate both the unit and the balloon. This means that Leadership and Leader+3 cards will not be able to activate the balloon if co-located with a unit. Also, Grande Manoeuvre would not be able to activate the balloon, since the card restricts an order to movement.

Hope this isn't too complicated. At the end of the day, it is a leader block with a couple of rule exceptions and a special ability.
GG's Avatar
GG replied the topic: #6290 9 months 1 week ago
Yes the French Line are all conscripts in this scenario.
I even never put any conscript badges because they all are conscripts so no need to make difference.
GG
RiverWanderer's Avatar
RiverWanderer replied the topic: #6289 9 months 1 week ago
Fleurus (26 June 1794) – GG06

Fleurus – Game 1
French - Nemo2333 - 6 banners
Allies - RiverWanderer - 9 banners


Allied opening volleys caused the French to pull back from Hippignies but had no effect around Courcelles, where the French soon had the Allies in trouble. Only exceptional performance by Dutch reserves managed to stabilise the situation.

With the attack on Courcelles at a stand-still, the Allies turned attention to Fleurus and Lambusart, penetrating as far as the Sambre to snag French General Marceau. At this point, the Allies were just two banners from victory and the French on three banners. However, this was deceptive; the French were reinforcing fast and the Allied frontline was over-extended and vulnerable. Successive turns quickly saw the French gain three banners, strengthen key areas and re-occupy all towns; the battle was now fully back in play.

The Allies needed a renewed attack but without the high casualty rate. Austrian Cavalry led the way, pinning French infantry in square on both flanks. This bought time for the Allies to manoevre strong infantry attacks against the vulnerable squares. Meanwhile, a French counter-attack from the centre came close to rescuing the battle but at the cost of abandoning one of the towns and, before the French could complete their recovery, "Cold Steel" finished off the remains of one of the French squares and a final lucky hit on Levebre got the Allies over the winning line.



We played the original rules but noticed that one French LN was not marked with a Conscript marker. Since the special rules simply stated that the French Line where inexperienced and didn't get the +1 in melee, we agreed to change this rogue LN to a Conscript like all the others. The card-bug caused us some trouble, despite care with the start.

Game 2 follows tomorrow.

File Attachment:

File Name: GG06Fleuru...ies.vlog
File Size:106 COM_KUNENA_USER_ATTACHMENT_FILE_WEIGHT
scipio1zama's Avatar
scipio1zama replied the topic: #6288 9 months 2 weeks ago
Here is the log file for the just reported game. Note that I misspelled the name of the scenario in making the logfile.
scipio1zama's Avatar
scipio1zama replied the topic: #6287 9 months 2 weeks ago
Fleurus (26 June 1794) – GG06


Fleurus – Game 1
French - Mike Stanley (scipio1zama) - 9 banners
Allies - Brent Steeves (BrentS) - 3 banners

The Allies launched a Cavalry Charge early in the game which put two French infantry units into square but cost the Allied cavalry five points of damage. The French riposte eliminated the Austrian HC and saw the Austrian LC R&R with heavy damage. Further fighting on the French right eliminated the French LT in square, but badly damaged two Austrian LN. French Elan eliminated an Austrian LN and LT, and put two hits on another Austrian LT. Then French Leadership eliminated an Austrian LC and LT, and put two hits on a Dutch LN, which was also soon eliminated. Further fighting on the Allied right cost each side a LN, and at this point the French were up 6-3. (The Allies had a third banner because Fleurus was unoccupied by the French)

An Allied Hold & Fire eliminated a French LN on the French right flank. Then Montaigu Took Command on the French left and eliminated both Dutch cavalry units and ran the Prince of Orange off the map. This put the French up 8-5, with the towns of Fleurus and Courcelles both unoccupied by French units.

Fleurus was finally occupied by the French, and Courcelles re-occupied, putting the banner count at 8-3, but that 9th banner proved elusive for the French. The French floundered around over the next 12 turns (6 Allied, 6 French) before finally eliminating an Austrian LN which was in Battalion Mass formation.

The Allies ran into a buzz saw in response to that initial Cavalry Charge, which set the tone for the game. I had good dice rolling (except there at the end) and I always had a card I could play.
Gileforn's Avatar
Gileforn replied the topic: #6286 9 months 2 weeks ago
1. Yes, I understand that baloons are additional option to the scout card. Yes, sometimes scout is in a play. It is interesting idea to show historical fact about baloons.

2. Yes, baloons will give just bonus, because the main thing making French side a lot of problems is banners for non-controlled cities. It is not too much usual and interesting.
GG's Avatar
GG replied the topic: #6285 9 months 2 weeks ago

Gileforn wrote: Ballon rule in the both variants is interesting, but I think it is not working here too much. It is a big random. For example, I have no any Scout cards during my play for the French side. On the other hand this scenario has very good speed and dynamic and usually French side don't have time to play scout for the baloons. I played this scenario four times, but baloons wasn't in use all time.


1- Do we agree that with the new little change you watch the opponent cards AND you draw 2 cards at the end (and choose one)?

2- I agree that the goal of the Balloon is not to make the French stronger but (in addition with history) it's just to compensate the fact that sometimes the French may be sadly OBLIGED to use a scout card in emergency.

So yes the Balloon won't be used during each battle, but at least when using a scout card to find some missing cards, the French will watch the opponent cards as a BONUS.

Best regards - GG

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